Fighter aircraft makers in the US, Europe and Russia are competing to win what will be the biggest foreign order in the world – the Indian Air Force wants 126 fighters. Gripen is in India to win the order for its JAS-39 fighters. Srinivasa Raghotham and Nirad Mudur asked Gripen’s India director, Scotsman Tony Ogilvy why the IAF should buy this relatively new aircraft.
(An abridged version of this interview was first published in Vijay Times, 15 January 2007).
1. Isn’t it strange that Sweden, a peaceful country which has pretensions to neutrality, maintains such a huge defence manufacturing base and wants to sell fighters to an Asian nation that lives in a rough neighbourhood?
You think there is an anomaly? The Swedes are peace-loving, but they are not neutral, they are non-aligned. But you must also remember that the Vikings were conquerors. Even during the Cold War, the Swedes had one of the biggest airforces in Europe.
2. JAS-39 has been bought by three countries with two common characteristics -- they are small nations; they have not fought a war in 30-40 years and are unlikely to do so in the future. How suitable would this aircraft be for India?
I don’t think it matters that Czechoslovakia, Hungary and South Africa are small countries, nor that they haven’t gone to war. In these countries, we won the fighter orders in competition against the best in the world. The Indian Air Force (IAF) already has a big air dominance fighter, the Sukhoi-30 MKI, which is one of the best in the world. Now, what it needs is a workhorse fighter like the MiG-21. JAS-39 fits the bill perfectly.
3. You very well know that this order has political and strategic meaning attached to it. Why should India choose the JAS-39 over US, French and Russian aircraft, and consequently over closer strategic relations with those admittedly more important world powers?
On a deal as big as this – and this is the biggest in the world – there will be internal political and external geopolitical considerations. But I do not think India needs to hang on to the coattails of another big power. India is a world power in its own right. India can afford to make a decision without worrying about geopolitical considerations.
4. … a world power that cannot make its own fighters?
Well, you are making the LCA…
5. What do you think about the LCA?
The LCA is an extremely viable programme. We would like to be involved in it and assist it in any way we can. With the Gripen, we will be transferring a huge amount of technology, which will be good for the LCA programme.
6. But you don’t fear that the LCA will become competition to Gripen?
No. The LCA won’t be a competition for Gripen, the timing is different. The IAF needs aircraft now, and that’s Gripen. The LCA will come at a later stage.
7. Given that all the other contending aircraft are also good and actually combat-tested, and given that their makers are touting technology transfer and co-production deals as good as Gripen’s or better, what is it that gives you hope of winning the order?
All the aircraft are good, the point is what’s right for your airforce at a particular point of time so that it can build a balanced force. We have been working with the Russians, the JAS-39 complements the IAF’s Sukhois very well. Moreover, with Gripen, you won’t have problems of technology being withheld as you would have with the American government. We will give you everything right up to the source code for the mission computer. No one else will do that. We are ready to fit any weapons system the IAF might ask for, Indian or foreign. With the French or the Americans, you would have to buy their own weapons systems. What Gripen will also mean is one-third the cost of another twin-engine aircraft, considering its lower unit price and low maintenance costs over its life.
8. OK, but what after JAS-39?
The JAS-39 is designed to remain top technology for the next 30 years, but we are not going to stand still. We will work with the IAF on improvements through the aircraft’s life. The Gripen currently has the GE F404 engine, we are working to upgrade it to the F414 engine. The aircraft also has room for more fuel. Going ahead, hardware changes will be minimal for aircraft. More and more will be done on the software side. We will work to add a new electronic scanning radar and software updates. We are going to begin making all these changes from 2009 onwards. By that time, India will be more or less sure which aircraft it will buy.
9. How will HAL figure in the deal?
What we plan to do is to deliver a small number of ready aircraft. Then, HAL will become the prime contractor. We will begin by transferring technology and equipment for aircraft assembly and gradually move down to enabling HAL to build the aircraft raw material upwards.
10. What will happen to your interest in India if you don’t get the order?
As I said, the IAF’s 126 fighters order is the biggest for us. And we know we are new in the race here. I have been in India for two years now, and we have just completed the first phase of our campaign.We also need to prove ourselves and back up our aircraft with guarantees. This is a marathon, we understand that. The fact is, our parent company SAAB is fully behind Gripen. There are SAAB land, air and sea business units that are interested in engaging broadly with India. Sweden is fully behind Gripen. This is what we are offering as the offset – 40 years of industrial cooperation with Sweden.
11. Among the advanced militaries, there is a trend towards unmanned aircraft, the UK’s Future Air Offensive System, for instance. Is Gripen too working in this direction?
Gripen is working with the French on unmanned aircraft. But airforces are conservative. They have built up infrastructure for manned aircraft. This won’t change very soon. India itself has built a powerful fixed-wing force. It is cast for at least another 30-40 years of manned aircraft as its mainstay.
12. Will you be seeking to sell to China as well?
We won’t sell to China. Part of the reason is that when we sell the aircraft, we don’t hold back anything, we give our customer all of the technology and know-how. I do not foresee us doing that with the Chinese. The Swedish government has a robust export controls programme that would prevent us from doing so. For us, India is the biggest market. You guys are difficult, but we love working with you.
